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 I hate Patriotism

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Empirewild
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PostSubject: I hate Patriotism    December 14th 2011, 7:18 pm

No, I am dead serious, I do.

These people in America (And yes, others too) get so fucking worked up when people talk shit about their country like they think they're flawless, especially America. If America was a perfect country, I would see death-rates going down the shitter, everyone having a job, people getting money, and everyone at peace. The day I see that is the day I'll shut up, but it hasn't happen yet.

Patriotism can be a good thing for supporting your country, but putting a sticker and saying "I support" is a bunch of crap. If you really want to support, how about get our soldiers home to their families and get them out of a war that should of end by now and some wars that they SHOULDN'T have been in the first place.

People like to think just because I hate Patriotism, makes me bad, but in reality, I do support my country, but not to the extent to think it's the best country ever. Is it the best to live, yes, best in the world no. Their are no perfect countries. NONE. So go ahead and flame me because my point stands.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 14th 2011, 11:39 pm

Patriotism is a huge factor of why the U.S got out of the Great Depression and became so powerful. The war in the Middle East would be over by now had we been more supportive.

Obviously the country is not perfect, but if you want it better, you have to be willing to make it better through certain sacrifices and the likes. Americans in general are not willing to change their habits to secure a better future for the country.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 15th 2011, 5:33 am

I like to think that there are patriots, people who like the country they're in, and think it's a pretty nice place to be, and blind idiots, "fuck yeah my country is the best fuck you all".
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 15th 2011, 4:16 pm

Raz wrote:
I like to think that there are patriots, people who like the country they're in, and think it's a pretty nice place to be, and blind idiots, "fuck yeah my country is the best fuck you all".

Most of the latter of those probably don't know anything about other countries. The majority of Americans hardly have any interest in foreign countries, whether they like their own country or not.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 15th 2011, 4:57 pm

Yes, hence the "blind idiot". Blind of course referring to how ignorant and short sighted they are in relation to the world.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 15th 2011, 8:43 pm

Sounds like you guys have more of an issue with Nationalism -- Patriotism in excess amounts/chauvinism.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 16th 2011, 10:07 am

Extremewild, this is an excellent topic and I support it 100%.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 16th 2011, 10:12 am

Strider Zero wrote:
Patriotism is a huge factor of why the U.S got out of the Great Depression and became so powerful. The war in the Middle East would be over by now had we been more supportive.

The reason America got out of the Great Depression was because FDR took some notes from commie Europe and because WII created tons of jobs.

The war in the Middle East would've never ended. You can't win a guerilla war, nor a war where the people you try to "free" don't want you there as has been shown by the Vietnam war.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 16th 2011, 4:07 pm

Kaio wrote:
Strider Zero wrote:
Patriotism is a huge factor of why the U.S got out of the Great Depression and became so powerful. The war in the Middle East would be over by now had we been more supportive.

The reason America got out of the Great Depression was because FDR took some notes from commie Europe and because WII created tons of jobs.

The war in the Middle East would've never ended. You can't win a guerilla war, nor a war where the people you try to "free" don't want you there as has been shown by the Vietnam war.

Yes, to an extent you are correct about FDR. But another huge factor was that Americans were willing to change their habits and here we were reusing everything, changing cars into tanks, etc. It was a time where America truly came together and worked towards this war. In Vietnam and the Middle East, it was quite the opposite.

Yes, you are correct. Because they didn't want the U.S there, it messed things up on both occasions. The support of the country was not there, though, and there was no true economic stimuli in them. A big reason why the U.S fell into the recent recession.

Although, we probably shouldn't have gone so high on the stock market in the first place. A healthy economy over a long span of time goes up a little and down a little.

Edit: I don't know what I was smoking when I said the war would have ended. The stimulus would have been there, but not ending the war. I mean, look what happened. We pulled out of Iraq for the most part just to go to Afghanistan.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 16th 2011, 8:23 pm

Since none of you seem to have even a basic understanding of the economy, I'm just going to post this here again.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 16th 2011, 10:03 pm

That hardly pertains to my point of economy. That's not the basics either. The basics of economics is that when the economy goes up, it's going to come down at some point. The higher you go up, the farther you will fall on the market. When you keep it even keeled with just a little bit of fluctuation, it's healthy.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 17th 2011, 6:31 pm

Strider Zero wrote:
That hardly pertains to my point of economy. That's not the basics either. The basics of economics is that when the economy goes up, it's going to come down at some point. The higher you go up, the farther you will fall on the market. When you keep it even keeled with just a little bit of fluctuation, it's healthy.

It only collapses if you let it. In a proper economy, a government will ensure that the market doesn't become too bloated by the means of raising and lowering taxes and interest. When an economy is doing great, you raise the taxes becuase the people can afford it and when it's doing shitty, you lower it so that people continue buying crap and people won't lose their jobs.

During the Bush administration (and also in countries like Europe ruiner Greece) taxes were lowered and lowered and lowered during a time where the economy was doing great, so people started buying crap they couldn't afford and loaned at banks because they payed zero interest over it. So the economy implodes and billions of dollars are created that nobody can pay off. It's also the reason why the 2008 economic crisis was so huge compared to the dozens of others that had come in the years before.

Now, falling back on what we discussed earlier, FDR back in the day had an opposition that had given up hope entirely after they couldn't get the country out of the Great Depression, so he was given free reign to implement as many reforms as he wanted. It's something that can't be done in this day and age because Republicans are too bullheaded to admit they fucked up and Obama lacks the backbone to pull through with his reforms because he wants to appease everyone. Resulting in a period where nothing is changed and anything that did will be reversed once the GOP is back in power.

So I also don't think that patriotism had much to do with getting the country out of the Great Depression. It was just that everyone just went with the flow because there wasn't much else to do. People are much more cynical and jaded these days.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    December 17th 2011, 9:39 pm

Kaio wrote:
Strider Zero wrote:
That hardly pertains to my point of economy. That's not the basics either. The basics of economics is that when the economy goes up, it's going to come down at some point. The higher you go up, the farther you will fall on the market. When you keep it even keeled with just a little bit of fluctuation, it's healthy.

It only collapses if you let it. In a proper economy, a government will ensure that the market doesn't become too bloated by the means of raising and lowering taxes and interest. When an economy is doing great, you raise the taxes becuase the people can afford it and when it's doing shitty, you lower it so that people continue buying crap and people won't lose their jobs.

During the Bush administration (and also in countries like Europe ruiner Greece) taxes were lowered and lowered and lowered during a time where the economy was doing great, so people started buying crap they couldn't afford and loaned at banks because they payed zero interest over it. So the economy implodes and billions of dollars are created that nobody can pay off. It's also the reason why the 2008 economic crisis was so huge compared to the dozens of others that had come in the years before.

Now, falling back on what we discussed earlier, FDR back in the day had an opposition that had given up hope entirely after they couldn't get the country out of the Great Depression, so he was given free reign to implement as many reforms as he wanted. It's something that can't be done in this day and age because Republicans are too bullheaded to admit they fucked up and Obama lacks the backbone to pull through with his reforms because he wants to appease everyone. Resulting in a period where nothing is changed and anything that did will be reversed once the GOP is back in power.

So I also don't think that patriotism had much to do with getting the country out of the Great Depression. It was just that everyone just went with the flow because there wasn't much else to do. People are much more cynical and jaded these days.

Yes, that is all true. I still think it had a very good influence on everything. The mindset of today is horrible in comparison.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    January 12th 2012, 12:31 pm

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    January 12th 2012, 5:24 pm

WWII created so many jobs for Americans and stimulated the economy enough that the U.S could pull out of the Great Depression. So I don't necessarily agree with that third point. As Kaio said earlier, FDR took notes from places like Germany. When the Nazis rose to power inside their more devastated economy than the U.S', they focused almost solely on military and their economy started to rise rapidly. Taking back the Rhineland also boosted them up a lot. People rise up when their basic needs are not being met, and that's exactly how bad of shape they were in. The most devastated country from WWI became one of the strongest countries just because of the Nazi's strategy (And pretty damn good scientists like Einstein, whom I'm glad moved to the U.S lol).

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    January 13th 2012, 1:25 pm

that is literally the dumbest video in the world ever omg

this "historian" needs to have his license revoked
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    May 11th 2012, 3:31 am

I dislike people who think patriotism means kissing your countries ass 24/7 as well..... Brain dead retards like Bill O'Reilly and others claiming that anyone who talks badly about America is unpatriotic, or as dumbass O'reilly would say, a pinhead....

Uhhh no.... See, a REAL, TRUE patriot loves their country, yes, but at the same time, they are not afraid to admit and discuss when our country/government fucks up.... And they are not afraid to admit that other countries are better in their opinion... That is a true patriot... Those who kiss the countries ass 24/7, or even put it down 24/7, are delusional and simple minded...

As said already, America, and every other country out there, has it's pro's and con's.... None are perfect, they all have winners and losers, regardless of who has more losers, who has the highest IQ nationwide, who has the strongest economy, etc... etc... But, people have a tendency to participate in international dick measuring.
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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    May 11th 2012, 3:34 am

Mishimi wrote:
But, people have a tendency to participate in international dick measuring.

What a pointless effort. We all know Africa wins hands down.

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PostSubject: Re: I hate Patriotism    May 11th 2012, 4:04 am

I dunno, I have a feeling there is a country of white people that could compete with the brothas!
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