Strongest character in DBZ

I say Vegito.

With GT: SSJ4 Gogeta (Or Old Man Krillin)
With Movies, no GT or Fusions: Super Janemba
No Movies, Only DBZ: Vegetto
DBZ, no fusions (absorbsions count): Buuhan
DBZ, no absorbsions either: Ultimate Gohan

Super Vegito

Building>SSJ4

Strider Hiryu wrote:

Super Vegito

Building>SSJ4 Goku

I think that works better

Whatever works

I don't count garbage GT. So if you count everything. Vegito. If not counting fusions, Gohan Buu.

The Strongest NON-FUSED character at the end of the series is Gohan.

However if we add fusions it's SSJ Vegito.

Vegito, by far. GT's power levels are broken. The strongest nonfusion, however, is Buu.

No, it depends if you consider absorbtion 'fusion', which i do to an extent, so i'll say Gohan.

Captain Raz wrote:

No, it depends if you consider absorbtion 'fusion', which i do to an extent, so i'll say Gohan.

Not necessarily. Kid Buu has no absorbed states, yet he is superior to essentially all the Z Fighters. He did kill Gohan, mind you.

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

But even so, Kid Buu is certainly not the weakest Buu. He beat the shit out of Fat Buu and all. It's debated whether Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or not. Some say Super Buu because Goku says that he and Vegeta can't beat him (but that could just be his antics because he said he couldn't beat Fat Buu, but he later says that he could have crushed him.). And some say Kid Buu because when the Kaioshins and Fat Buu were released, it's stated that it holds back power from Kid Buu (But then again, we don't really know for sure.)

Zechs wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

But even so, Kid Buu is certainly not the weakest Buu. He beat the shit out of Fat Buu and all. It's debated whether Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or not. Some say Super Buu because Goku says that he and Vegeta can't beat him (but that could just be his antics because he said he couldn't beat Fat Buu, but he later says that he could have crushed him.). And some say Kid Buu because when the Kaioshins and Fat Buu were released, it's stated that it holds back power from Kid Buu (But then again, we don't really know for sure.)

Well, the act that Goku was able to hold Buutenks at all without being pummeled makes things debatable for me, but I think we can both agree that Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than Kid Buu.

Yeah, I think that the Kaioshins made Buu weaker, and that, until Super Buu released that weakness from him, he was being held back. However, Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is stronger, I think, than any other form of Buu. What made Kid Buu so dangerous, though, was that he was insane. Super Buu had self-control, but Kid Buu worked purely on instinct. That, in a sense, made him the most dangerous DBZ character.

Da Games Elite wrote:

Zechs wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

But even so, Kid Buu is certainly not the weakest Buu. He beat the shit out of Fat Buu and all. It's debated whether Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or not. Some say Super Buu because Goku says that he and Vegeta can't beat him (but that could just be his antics because he said he couldn't beat Fat Buu, but he later says that he could have crushed him.). And some say Kid Buu because when the Kaioshins and Fat Buu were released, it's stated that it holds back power from Kid Buu (But then again, we don't really know for sure.)

Well, the act that Goku was able to hold Buutenks at all without being pummeled makes things debatable for me, but I think we can both agree that Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than Kid Buu.

Yeah, I think that the Kaioshins made Buu weaker, and that, until Super Buu released that weakness from him, he was being held back. However, Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is stronger, I think, than any other form of Buu. What made Kid Buu so dangerous, though, was that he was insane. Super Buu had self-control, but Kid Buu worked purely on instinct. That, in a sense, made him the most dangerous DBZ character.

Well yes. Supreme Kaio stated that Kid Buu is the most dangerous.

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

A lot of wrong here.

SSJ3 Goku vs. Buttenks was filler. and even it wasn't Buutenks was literally going for the kill after ten seconds or so of punching Goku around. Without even trying.

The Buu that Kid Buu faought was Mr. Buu and not Majin/Fat Buu. Big difference there as Mr. Buu doesn't have the power of Evil Thin Buu, and therefore is not much stronger than a very powerful SSJ2.

Zechs wrote:

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

Correct.

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But even so, Kid Buu is certainly not the weakest Buu. He beat the shit out of Fat Buu and all.

Mr. Buu.

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It's debated whether Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or not.

Which isn't really neccesary. The evidence is as clear as it can get.

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Some say Super Buu because Goku says that he and Vegeta can't beat him (but that could just be his antics because he said he couldn't beat Fat Buu, but he later says that he could have crushed him.).

Goku's antics involved him wanting to retire and let Goten and Trunks finish the job. Goten and Trunks are unconsious when Goku makes the statement that he can't beat Super Buu.

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And some say Kid Buu because when the Kaioshins and Fat Buu were released, it's stated that it holds back power from Kid Buu (But then again, we don't really know for sure.)

Only Fat Buu was restrained, not Super Buu.

Da Games Elite wrote:

Well, the act that Goku was able to hold Buutenks at all without being pummeled makes things debatable for me, but I think we can both agree that Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than Kid Buu.

He wasn''t able to hold Buu at all.

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Yeah, I think that the Kaioshins made Buu weaker, and that, until Super Buu released that weakness from him, he was being held back.

That's right, so Super Buu > Kid Buu. Glad you agree.

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However, Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is stronger, I think, than any other form of Buu.

No shit, Sherlock. It needed a fusion of Goku and Vegeta to defeat him. The rest could be defeated by Gohan or Gotenks, with the exception of Buutenks.

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What made Kid Buu so dangerous, though, was that he was insane. Super Buu had self-control, but Kid Buu worked purely on instinct. That, in a sense, made him the most dangerous DBZ character.

Topic title: Strongest character in DBZ

Listen to Kaio. He does this stuff better than me.

Captain Raz wrote:

Listen to Kaio. He does this stuff better than me.

That's right.

Edited my post BTW for extra ownage.

I lol'd at the last two.

Ah! A debate! Nice! >_< Well, a lot of ground to cover with this one, so let's get started!

Kaio wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

A lot of wrong here.

SSJ3 Goku vs. Buttenks was filler. and even it wasn't Buutenks was literally going for the kill after ten seconds or so of punching Goku around. Without even trying.

The Buu that Kid Buu faought was Mr. Buu and not Majin/Fat Buu. Big difference there as Mr. Buu doesn't have the power of Evil Thin Buu, and therefore is not much stronger than a very powerful SSJ2.

Filler? Alright, I'll give you that. Well, the simple fact of the matter is that Goku could even hold Buu back for ten seconds is more than he could hold Kid Buu back for. Most of the time during the Kid Buu fight, Goku was going all out, and collapsed after a matter of minutes. As for the struggle with Buuttenks, he still had enough energy to resist Buu further. Clearly, Goku wasn't being pummeled as you imply by Buuttenks. It seemed like less of a beatdown than a break-away. Besides, it's clear that both Buuttenks and Kid Buu are stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

That's a fan-made name for the Fat Buu after Kid Buu. I will give you that he doesn't have the power of Thin/Evil Buu, but, mind you, regardless, Kid Buu demolished him without Mr. Buu ever landing a real blow. There is no denial of that.

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Zechs wrote:

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

Correct.

Uh, no, not correct. Yes, Goku barely held Buuttenks off, but he didn't fare much better against Kid Buu, who was playing with him the whole time. When Buuttenks fought Goku, he was serious. Kid Buu acted like it was a funny little game. CLEARLY Buuttenks put more effort into the fight than Kid Buu ever did, save for the VERY end.

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But even so, Kid Buu is certainly not the weakest Buu. He beat the shit out of Fat Buu and all.

Mr. Buu.

I say tomato...

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It's debated whether Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or not.

Which isn't really neccesary. The evidence is as clear as it can get.

What evidence? Has Akira Toriyama ever made a statement? If so, all this is so far is FAN SPECULATION!!!! There is never a concrete statement saying that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu in the course of the series, so there's no way you can say there' concrete evidence. Besides, I don't see Super Buu blowing up planets one after another.

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Some say Super Buu because Goku says that he and Vegeta can't beat him (but that could just be his antics because he said he couldn't beat Fat Buu, but he later says that he could have crushed him.).

Goku's antics involved him wanting to retire and let Goten and Trunks finish the job. Goten and Trunks are unconsious when Goku makes the statement that he can't beat Super Buu.

That is true.

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And some say Kid Buu because when the Kaioshins and Fat Buu were released, it's stated that it holds back power from Kid Buu (But then again, we don't really know for sure.)

Only Fat Buu was restrained, not Super Buu.

Fat Buu was restrained, and Super Buu absorbed Fat Buu, thus he absorbed the restraints. Ergo, Super Buu was restrained.

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Da Games Elite wrote:

Well, the act that Goku was able to hold Buutenks at all without being pummeled makes things debatable for me, but I think we can both agree that Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than Kid Buu.

He wasn''t able to hold Buu at all.

He held him off for long enough. The fact that Gohan was able to get the earring at all is proof of that.

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Yeah, I think that the Kaioshins made Buu weaker, and that, until Super Buu released that weakness from him, he was being held back.

That's right, so Super Buu > Kid Buu. Glad you agree.

Uh...no, that's not what I said. When Super Buu was released from that weakness, he transformed into Kid Buu. Kid Buu was never restrained by the Kaoishins. That was Fat Buu. Since Super Buu STILL had those weaknesses inside him when he was Super Buu, he was weaker. Saying otherwise is the same as saying that, if I digest toxic sludge, the coating in my intestine won't affect me because I've already absorbed it. Although this entire point you made accumulated to nothing to your part, I'm grateful that you did point out that I need to make my points more clear. Thanks for helping me own you. ^_^

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However, Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is stronger, I think, than any other form of Buu.

No shit, Sherlock. It needed a fusion of Goku and Vegeta to defeat him. The rest could be defeated by Gohan or Gotenks, with the exception of Buutenks.

I agree with you, and you try twisting the knife? Even after I rebutted all these points you made, I find it rather cocky of you.

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What made Kid Buu so dangerous, though, was that he was insane. Super Buu had self-control, but Kid Buu worked purely on instinct. That, in a sense, made him the most dangerous DBZ character.

Topic title: Strongest character in DBZ

Agreed, which is why I added it at the END of my post and didn't make it the point. Irrelevant.

Da Games Elite wrote:

Ah! A debate! Nice! >_< Well, a lot of ground to cover with this one, so let's get started!

Kaio wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

A lot of wrong here.

SSJ3 Goku vs. Buttenks was filler. and even it wasn't Buutenks was literally going for the kill after ten seconds or so of punching Goku around. Without even trying.

The Buu that Kid Buu faought was Mr. Buu and not Majin/Fat Buu. Big difference there as Mr. Buu doesn't have the power of Evil Thin Buu, and therefore is not much stronger than a very powerful SSJ2.

Filler? Alright, I'll give you that. Well, the simple fact of the matter is that Goku could even hold Buu back for ten seconds is more than he could hold Kid Buu back for. Most of the time during the Kid Buu fight, Goku was going all out, and collapsed after a matter of minutes. As for the struggle with Buuttenks, he still had enough energy to resist Buu further. Clearly, Goku wasn't being pummeled as you imply by Buuttenks. It seemed like less of a beatdown than a break-away. Besides, it's clear that both Buuttenks and Kid Buu are stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

No. SSJ3 Goku = Kid Buu. Kid Buu has no restraint so he can't help but go all out. The fact that he was laughing and shit was merely the sadistic side of him. Also, Goku was holding back his full power because it would severely decrease his power and he wouldn't have any time in the form. He also blew apart Kid Buu only for him to regenerate. They hurt each other a decent amount of times. Vegeta also states that Goku can destroy Buu if he used his full power.

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Zechs wrote:

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

Correct.

Uh, no, not correct. Yes, Goku barely held Buuttenks off, but he didn't fare much better against Kid Buu, who was playing with him the whole time. When Buuttenks fought Goku, he was serious. Kid Buu acted like it was a funny little game. CLEARLY Buuttenks put more effort into the fight than Kid Buu ever did, save for the VERY end.

As said before, Kid Buu has no restraint. Buutenks was messing around with him just like he did to Gohan. If he had dragged the fight on any longer, he would have had his ass kicked in the same way Gohan did.

Zechs wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Ah! A debate! Nice! >_< Well, a lot of ground to cover with this one, so let's get started!

Kaio wrote:

Da Games Elite wrote:

Captain Raz wrote:

Kid Buu is the weakest buu. He killed Gohan while he was unconscious, that doesn't count.

Weakest? I wouldn't say that. I'm pretty sure he could hold his own against SSJ3 Goku better than Super Buu did with Gotenks absorbed when he fought Goku was getting the Potara, AND Kid Buu pummeled Majin Buu.

A lot of wrong here.

SSJ3 Goku vs. Buttenks was filler. and even it wasn't Buutenks was literally going for the kill after ten seconds or so of punching Goku around. Without even trying.

The Buu that Kid Buu faought was Mr. Buu and not Majin/Fat Buu. Big difference there as Mr. Buu doesn't have the power of Evil Thin Buu, and therefore is not much stronger than a very powerful SSJ2.

Filler? Alright, I'll give you that. Well, the simple fact of the matter is that Goku could even hold Buu back for ten seconds is more than he could hold Kid Buu back for. Most of the time during the Kid Buu fight, Goku was going all out, and collapsed after a matter of minutes. As for the struggle with Buuttenks, he still had enough energy to resist Buu further. Clearly, Goku wasn't being pummeled as you imply by Buuttenks. It seemed like less of a beatdown than a break-away. Besides, it's clear that both Buuttenks and Kid Buu are stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

No. SSJ3 Goku = Kid Buu. Kid Buu has no restraint so he can't help but go all out. The fact that he was laughing and shit was merely the sadistic side of him. Also, Goku was holding back his full power because it would severely decrease his power and he wouldn't have any time in the form. He also blew apart Kid Buu only for him to regenerate. They hurt each other a decent amount of times. Vegeta also states that Goku can destroy Buu if he used his full power.

Let's put it this way: Buuttenks was actually working. Kid Buu laughing wasn't so much him being sadistic so much as him having a good time. It's clear when Kid Buu is working hard during the fight. When he's struggling against the Spirit Bomb, his veins are pulsating violently. That is a sign of effort. When he's charging up to blow up planets, his entire body is pulsating again. When fighting Goku, however, this isn't true.

On the other hand, Buuttenks IS pulsating in a similar way when struggling against SSJ3 Goku and Gohan. He IS working hard, as opposed to Kid Buu. The restraints on both Super and Fat Buu kept their power down, and they needed to work harder at it. However, Kid Buu isn't restrained in that manor. Nevertheless, just because you have unrestrained power doesn't mean you'll use it. Kid Buu never even hinted that he was working hard, as opposed to every other DBZ character who is clearly struggling to fight. We never saw Kid Buu's true strength until he was struggling against the Spirit Bomb, as that's the only time he's shown struggling. Most of the time, he seemed to allow himself to be blown up in order to play further. Goku wasn't holding back so much as trying to pace himself in the fight. Take it from an athlete that there's a huge difference. Holding yourself back means you're going easy, but pacing yourself is more that you're using the same amount of strength and energy that it would take to go all out, simply spreading it out over a longer course of time. The same can be said for EVERY DBZ battle. Vegeta also didn't realize that Goku was exhausted, either, so clearly his perspective wasn't the best.

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Zechs wrote:

Buutenks was clearly better than Kid Buu. Goku was barely holding Buutenks off while he was going to get his ass kicked. SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in strength.

Correct.

Uh, no, not correct. Yes, Goku barely held Buuttenks off, but he didn't fare much better against Kid Buu, who was playing with him the whole time. When Buuttenks fought Goku, he was serious. Kid Buu acted like it was a funny little game. CLEARLY Buuttenks put more effort into the fight than Kid Buu ever did, save for the VERY end.

As said before, Kid Buu has no restraint. Buutenks was messing around with him just like he did to Gohan. If he had dragged the fight on any longer, he would have had his ass kicked in the same way Gohan did.

Buuttenks understood the severity of the situation. He wasn't just messing around; he was seriously afraid of being defeated, and tried to get Gohan away from the earring. Kid Buu has no power restraint, and no mental restraint, but he also wants to play. He's vicious, but doesn't know when to go all out or not. He'd prefer to drag out the beat down for as long as possible until he gets bored. Remember when Buu was just pummeling Fat Buu? He could have blown him to bits, but rather decided to beat him again and again for pleasure. He didn't derive fun from killing; he derived fun from the process of brutally beating someone down until they broke. When Kid Buu is serious, he isn't laughing.

Clearly, Buutenks was toying with Goku. After Goku shot him with a blast, he was smiling the rest of the time and toyed with him laughing as he started to beat him down.

If you were to go by filler (Which you are right now), Goku did the exact same thing with Kid Buu as SSJ2 before he transformed to SSJ3 and was even in power to him.

Zechs wrote:

Clearly, Buutenks was toying with Goku. After Goku shot him with a blast, he was smiling the rest of the time and toyed with him laughing as he started to beat him down.

If you were to go by filler (Which you are right now), Goku did the exact same thing with Kid Buu as SSJ2 before he transformed to SSJ3 and was even in power to him.

Alright, I admit you have me there, but you haven't beaten any of my other points concretely.

However, one thing I noticed is that Goku didn't have a full battle against Super Buu as a SSJ3 as he did against Fat Buu or Kid Buu. All his fights were brief segments, so it's thus almost impossible to really measure their powers, now that I think about it.

Meh. This shouldn't even be debated. I agree with everything Kaio said thus far and mostly what Zechs said