Mystic Gohan or Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

Jaffar wrote:

Strider Hiryu wrote:

Proving his antics quite further that he lets everyone else do the work. On Frieza, he knew no one else could beat him so he had to do it. But when Trunks kills Mecha Frieza, Goku says he could have Instant Transmissioned over there to easily kill Frieza but he let Trunks take care of it.

Exactly. He wants everyone else to have the credit rather then him all the time.

Yeah. Not to mention he stepped in against Cell first to show Gohan that he could do it because he could follow them fighting when no one else could. AND he wanted Gotenks to defeat Fat Buu so he wouldn't have to do it.

Jaffar wrote:

Hyuuga Neji wrote:

TheRanterMan wrote:

The only reason Goku said that he's too strong is because he couldn't go SSJ3 again for that part. He didn't have enough energy after unfusing. Same deal was with when Goku was restored to full power against Kid Buu he could only go SSJ1

What does energy have to do with fusing using the Potara?
Also, to whoever said that Goku was able to hold off Buutenks, the fight didn't happen in the manga.

I'm aware of that, but it DID happen in the anime AND why not count the anime? Akira Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball Z.



Stating right there that he doesn't need to transform into SSJ3 to fight him anymore because Buu is now weak enough for Mystic Gohan to take care of him. "IT'S KINDA DISAPPOINTING... TOO BAD... GOHAN CAN HANDLE YOU NOW..."

He's saying that Gohan can kill him now. No mention of himself. If we count the anime, Yamcha > Olibu = Pikkon with Weights >>>>>>> Super Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Goku = Pikkon

Hyuuga Neji wrote:

Jaffar wrote:

Hyuuga Neji wrote:

TheRanterMan wrote:

The only reason Goku said that he's too strong is because he couldn't go SSJ3 again for that part. He didn't have enough energy after unfusing. Same deal was with when Goku was restored to full power against Kid Buu he could only go SSJ1

What does energy have to do with fusing using the Potara?
Also, to whoever said that Goku was able to hold off Buutenks, the fight didn't happen in the manga.

I'm aware of that, but it DID happen in the anime AND why not count the anime? Akira Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball Z.



Stating right there that he doesn't need to transform into SSJ3 to fight him anymore because Buu is now weak enough for Mystic Gohan to take care of him. "IT'S KINDA DISAPPOINTING... TOO BAD... GOHAN CAN HANDLE YOU NOW..."

He's saying that Gohan can kill him now. No mention of himself. If we count the anime, Yamcha > Olibu = Pikkon with Weights >>>>>>> Super Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Goku = Pikkon

He's disappointed that he doesn't have the challenge he wants. And explain that last part. Not quite sure how.

Evil Ryu wrote:

Hyuuga Neji wrote:

Jaffar wrote:

Hyuuga Neji wrote:

TheRanterMan wrote:

The only reason Goku said that he's too strong is because he couldn't go SSJ3 again for that part. He didn't have enough energy after unfusing. Same deal was with when Goku was restored to full power against Kid Buu he could only go SSJ1

What does energy have to do with fusing using the Potara?
Also, to whoever said that Goku was able to hold off Buutenks, the fight didn't happen in the manga.

I'm aware of that, but it DID happen in the anime AND why not count the anime? Akira Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball Z.



Stating right there that he doesn't need to transform into SSJ3 to fight him anymore because Buu is now weak enough for Mystic Gohan to take care of him. "IT'S KINDA DISAPPOINTING... TOO BAD... GOHAN CAN HANDLE YOU NOW..."

He's saying that Gohan can kill him now. No mention of himself. If we count the anime, Yamcha > Olibu = Pikkon with Weights >>>>>>> Super Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Goku = Pikkon

He's disappointed that he doesn't have the challenge he wants. And explain that last part. Not quite sure how.

Or he's disappointed because he can't kill him himself. He was just revived for no reason (which also killed the other Kaioshin) because now he can''t even fight.
Yamcha beat Olibu easily, who was equal to Pikkon with weights, who was equal (I think? I forget) to FPSSJ Goku, who wtfpwned Super Perfect Cell with 1 attack.
To below,

Strider Hiryu wrote:

We don't necessarily count the anime as all canon. But really, we can't exact the total amount of Goku's SSJ3 power against Super Buu because he never fought him alone. All we know is that when he rushed towards Goku, he transformed to SSJ3 to defend himself and Gotenks unfused.

We do know that he loves to let everyone do the work for him, however.

IIRC, the only times I remember him letting someone else do the work is Mecha Freeza and Fat Buu. With Mecha Freeza I don't remember why he didn't IT there, but with Fat Buu he said that he wanted the new generation to handle things now (which would have worked if Gotenks didn't screw around)

We don't necessarily count the anime as all canon. But really, we can't exact the total amount of Goku's SSJ3 power against Super Buu because he never fought him alone. All we know is that when he rushed towards Goku, he transformed to SSJ3 to defend himself and Gotenks unfused.

We do know that he loves to let everyone do the work for him, however.

Strider Hiryu wrote:

We don't necessarily count the anime as all canon. But really, we can't exact the total amount of Goku's SSJ3 power against Super Buu because he never fought him alone. All we know is that when he rushed towards Goku, he transformed to SSJ3 to defend himself and Gotenks unfused.

We do know that he loves to let everyone do the work for him, however.

That's true.

i have to go with mystic gohan i think he was the 2nd strongest character behind kid buu

carnagevegeta wrote:

i have to go with mystic gohan i think he was the 2nd strongest character behind kid buu

That doesn't make sense. If Kid Buu>Chou Gohan then SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan as well.

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Isn't Mystic Gohan actually stated to be the strongest non-fused character in DBZ?

He could of completely wrecked Super Buu with ease.

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

i have to go with mystic gohan i think he was the 2nd strongest character behind kid buu

That doesn't make sense. If Kid Buu>Chou Gohan then SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan as well.

i give it to gohan based on how easily he took down super buu i think ss3 goku is on ss3 gotenks and super buus level but when it comes to mystic gohan i dont think he will win

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

I'm pretty sure that was because he was merciless and pure evil.

He was always smiling against Goku because he's psychotic.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your second example.

carnagevegeta wrote:

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

i have to go with mystic gohan i think he was the 2nd strongest character behind kid buu

That doesn't make sense. If Kid Buu>Chou Gohan then SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan as well.

i give it to gohan based on how easily he took down super buu i think ss3 goku is on ss3 gotenks and super buus level but when it comes to mystic gohan i dont think he will win

I know what you're saying, but SSJ3 Goku>=Kid Buu. The only reason he didn't win outright is because SSJ3 takes so much energy out of him that he can't sustain it very long.

That very fact leads me to believe that SSJ3 Goku is far stronger than he lets on. He would have wrecked Fat Buu had the fight dragged on any longer. If he didn't hold back against Kid Buu in the beginning of their fight, he would have beaten him with an over the top Kamehameha.

Though it's pretty obvious that Buutenks>SSJ3 Goku, that's really the best we can come up with without speculation. SSJ3 takes a ton of energy, and with Goku not being dead anymore, there was a chance he couldn't actually go SSJ3 inside of Super Buu. I mean, think about it. If Goku had gone SSJ3, he could have easily destroyed Super Buu from the inside.

At this point I won't say SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan or Chou Gohan>SSJ3 Goku just because there isn't enough evidence but I'd say there is a little more on Chou's side.

Simon wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

I'm pretty sure that was because he was merciless and pure evil.

He was always smiling against Goku because he's psychotic.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your second example.

yes but he still pushed the spirit bomb back with gohans energy
yes he is psychotic but he does worry if he feels he is in trouble of dying
and for my example 2 when super buu changes into kid buu surpreme kai is very worried even when everybody is free

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

Example 1: Deadly also =/= stronger. He's more dangerous because of his nature.

Example 2: Supreme Kai was worried that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pui Pui.

Example 3: Kid Buu doesn't hold back. It's his nature to go all out. The fact that he laughs is his crazy ass nature.

Example 4: I don't understand this either. The spirit bomb does draw a different kind of energy though. I think it draws from their life force and not their actual Ki.

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

i have to go with mystic gohan i think he was the 2nd strongest character behind kid buu

That doesn't make sense. If Kid Buu>Chou Gohan then SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan as well.

i give it to gohan based on how easily he took down super buu i think ss3 goku is on ss3 gotenks and super buus level but when it comes to mystic gohan i dont think he will win

I know what you're saying, but SSJ3 Goku>=Kid Buu. The only reason he didn't win outright is because SSJ3 takes so much energy out of him that he can't sustain it very long.

That very fact leads me to believe that SSJ3 Goku is far stronger than he lets on. He would have wrecked Fat Buu had the fight dragged on any longer. If he didn't hold back against Kid Buu in the beginning of their fight, he would have beaten him with an over the top Kamehameha.

Though it's pretty obvious that Buutenks>SSJ3 Goku, that's really the best we can come up with without speculation. SSJ3 takes a ton of energy, and with Goku not being dead anymore, there was a chance he couldn't actually go SSJ3 inside of Super Buu. I mean, think about it. If Goku had gone SSJ3, he could have easily destroyed Super Buu from the inside.

At this point I won't say SSJ3 Goku>Chou Gohan or Chou Gohan>SSJ3 Goku just because there isn't enough evidence but I'd say there is a little more on Chou's side.

maybe your right against him beating super buu but i dont think he will beat him like gohan did i think it will take alot of effort it and it would be close

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

I'm pretty sure that was because he was merciless and pure evil.

He was always smiling against Goku because he's psychotic.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your second example.

yes but he still pushed the spirit bomb back with gohans energy
yes he is psychotic but he does worry if he feels he is in trouble of dying
and for my example 2 when super buu changes into kid buu surpreme kai is very worried even when everybody is free

I want to focus on the Spirit Bomb.

The Spirit Bomb takes a fraction of the life energy from every person, every living organism on Earth. It did not include all Gohan's power, it couldn't, it would killed him. King Kai warned of this way back in the Saiyan saga about how the Spirit Bomb can destroy the very planet your trying to save, if misused.

The idea of the Spirit Bomb however is that many fractions of life force energy >>> one strong Ki user.

justinlynch3 wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

I'm pretty sure that was because he was merciless and pure evil.

He was always smiling against Goku because he's psychotic.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your second example.

yes but he still pushed the spirit bomb back with gohans energy
yes he is psychotic but he does worry if he feels he is in trouble of dying
and for my example 2 when super buu changes into kid buu surpreme kai is very worried even when everybody is free

I want to focus on the Spirit Bomb.

The Spirit Bomb takes a fraction of the life energy from every person, every living organism on Earth. It did not include all Gohan's power, it couldn't, it would killed him. King Kai warned of this way back in the Saiyan saga about how the Spirit Bomb can destroy the very planet your trying to save, if misused.

The idea of the Spirit Bomb however is that many fractions of life force energy >>> one strong Ki user.

your right but it does take alot of your energy it didnt take all of it but i think he still gave alot because it got big when he gave his energy and goku felt it
and i think he gave enough so he could make sure kid buu was destroyed

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

Example 1: Deadly also =/= stronger. He's more dangerous because of his nature.

Example 2: Supreme Kai was worried that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pui Pui.

Example 3: Kid Buu doesn't hold back. It's his nature to go all out. The fact that he laughs is his crazy ass nature.

Example 4: I don't understand this either. The spirit bomb does draw a different kind of energy though. I think it draws from their life force and not their actual Ki.

example 1: true but that does not make him weaker
example 2: this is true however surpreme kai saw how strong gohan got he was there through the whole process of him becoming mystic gohan
example 3: i think he does hold back he was not only laughing but sleeping during the fight i really dont think he thought of them that they were a threat

Buu put all his energy into pushing it back. So he barely escaped. Otherwise going SSJ wouldn't have helped Goku. He would have needed SSJ3.

carnagevegeta wrote:

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

Example 1: Deadly also =/= stronger. He's more dangerous because of his nature.

Example 2: Supreme Kai was worried that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pui Pui.

Example 3: Kid Buu doesn't hold back. It's his nature to go all out. The fact that he laughs is his crazy ass nature.

Example 4: I don't understand this either. The spirit bomb does draw a different kind of energy though. I think it draws from their life force and not their actual Ki.

example 1: true but that does not make him weaker
example 2: this is true however surpreme kai saw how strong gohan got he was there through the whole process of him becoming mystic gohan
example 3: i think he does hold back he was not only laughing but sleeping during the fight i really dont think he thought of them that they were a threat

1: Agreed.
2: Kaioshin also always over exaggerates things. He thought Fat Buu was unstoppable.
3: He only slept before the fight. Goku and Vegeta laughed at him because they thought he wasn't a threat to them.

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Strider Zero wrote:

carnagevegeta wrote:

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

Simon wrote:

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Chou Gohan took Super Buu to the carnival of PAIN

Super Buu > Kid Buu.

Chou Gohan > Super Buu

Therefore: Chou Gohan > Kid Buu

kid buu is actually one of the strongest
example 1: in the manga it said that he was more deadly then super buu and deadly does not mean weaker i dont know where that came from but since when is deadly=weaker the case i havent heard that
example 2: surpreme kai is worried even with ss3 gotenks, mystic gohan, ss3 goku, and vegeta are out meaning that he still stood a chance
example 3: kid buu was toying with goku through the whole match did not look worried untill the spirit bomb
example 4: that spirit bomb that he was able to push back had mystic gohans energy in it + everybody else and he still pushed it back

Example 1: Deadly also =/= stronger. He's more dangerous because of his nature.

Example 2: Supreme Kai was worried that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pui Pui.

Example 3: Kid Buu doesn't hold back. It's his nature to go all out. The fact that he laughs is his crazy ass nature.

Example 4: I don't understand this either. The spirit bomb does draw a different kind of energy though. I think it draws from their life force and not their actual Ki.

example 1: true but that does not make him weaker
example 2: this is true however surpreme kai saw how strong gohan got he was there through the whole process of him becoming mystic gohan
example 3: i think he does hold back he was not only laughing but sleeping during the fight i really dont think he thought of them that they were a threat

1: Agreed.
2: Kaioshin also always over exaggerates things. He thought Fat Buu was unstoppable.
3: He only slept before the fight. Goku and Vegeta laughed at him because they thought he wasn't a threat to them.

1: so idk why people say super buu is stronger dosent make sense to me
2: he would have been if not for a goku at ss3 which surpreme kai didnt know also didnt know that gotenks could fuse but did see potential in gohan even though he does over exaggerate on some things
3: yeah but nobody sleeps before a fight but maybe he thought they couldnt build up enough energy to put him down maybe it wasnt the threat thing

People say Super Buu>Kid Buu because of Goku's statement that he can't beat Super Buu. However there was a chance that he couldn't maintain SSJ3 long enough to take him down. The statement is altogether bullshit anyway because they could just fuse and fuck the shit out of him.

Like I said, I can't bring myself to side with Super Buu or Kid Buu.

*Waits for Kaio to enter and proceed to own us all.*